Workflows with Andre Brown
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Andre Brown: [00:00:00] I offered my services to go on their, their back thread trips or whatever, giving them information about costs that gives me more content. That gives me better relationship with the client. I would rather go in and get one client spending 20 down $30,000 with me than to go get 10. $3,000 Clients
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Workflows is a podcast about saving you time and money in your photography business as a photographer and content Creator who struggles with dyslexia, colorblindness, introversion, and anxiety stemming from years of being bullied as a child.
Workflows have been my rock. I have workflows for every aspect of my life, and that's why I am so happy to bring you workflows, a podcast Presented by Imagen as a company dedicated to saving you time and money in your photography business, it makes sense to enhance and expand the conversation to all things workflow.
Tune in and subscribe [00:01:00] to hear stories, strategies, and tools that could be your rock. Hear from people just like you. Put the camera down for little, connect the headphones and get to work with workflows. Get in on the conversation by joining the Imagen Community today. Imagen the possibilities. Andre Brown is an award-winning wedding photographer based in Atlanta, Georgia.
His work has been featured in several notable publications and has won awards from prestigious organizations including W P P I. Andre is also a speaker educator and a host of the Embrace Workshop and Brand Ambassador for Westcott MagMod Light in Motion and Imagen. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Andre Brown.
All right, so episode 16. We are here. This is season two. Andre Brown. What's up man? , Ms. Palmer
Andre Brown: man. How you doing,
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: man? Oh, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Recovered from imaging usa. I will tell you, I [00:02:00] got home. I got home, Thursday morning. Okay. Wednesday night. I can't remember when I got home, but like Thursday was a complete blur.
I don't know what happened on Thursday. I know it was home, but. That's all I know. I don't know what happened during the day. ,
Andre Brown: man, I'll, I'll feel you, man. Like imaging was. I'll say kind of the end of the line for me. I did have a, so we got back from imaging. You said you got back Thursday. I got back, you know, Thursday as well.
Mm-hmm. and had a bridal show that Sunday. And I still didn't have all of my materials in for the bridal show, but even at that point I had only, I mean, January's over, I was only home seven days in the month of January. , it's gone, you know? Yeah. I was in Washington state. I went to Dubai. I went to Nashville, and then, I, I came back, you know, prepped for the bridal show.
So I'm taking, like, I have nothing in, in February right now, so I'm just relaxing few days. [00:03:00] Yeah. .
What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz:
That's awesome. That's awesome. okay, so I'm gonna ask you the same question I ask every guest straight. , what is one thing you do for the photographic process behind the camera? Right? You're, you're still in the middle of your photo session, whatever it is that has saved you time.
oh man. I hate that being like cliched, but like capturing it right in camera. Mm-hmm. right. I, I shoot weddings, so for the most part, you know, things just kind of like happy, you know what I'm saying? And you just kind of gotta go. Yeah. And even as I go through photos from second shooters or whatever, I'll see that they'll like, they are big on just, I'm just gonna snap and whatever comes, every comes of it, which ends up, you know, making the process of getting things back in post so much harder.
especially like if you're using Imagen, right? Because Imagen they're not necessarily used to [00:04:00] you being there. Far off on the spectrum. I'm never that far off on the spectrum, right? but taking the time and like checking. I remember when I, when I first started, you know, there was like this big thing about Chimping, oh, chimping, chimping.
Andre Brown: Right, it's, it's there. Like check it to be sure that it's, that it's right, right in the moment. You're not trying to be Albert Einstein and think of whatever mathematical equation to the law of relativity and all of that stuff in the moment, right. Like, check it, it takes two seconds, click. Oh, okay, cool.
Am I, am I too hot? Am I too dark? Get it right there, and I will save you loads of time and stress. And then on the backside, and then post when it comes down to, you know, getting,getting the, the final result that you want.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. You know, you know, as you, you started by saying, you know, you hate to be cliche, but at the same time, , it's so important to restate that, you know, like you might have been the fifth [00:05:00] person to say that, which is perfectly okay with me because that is so, it is so important.
It is so important to, to do it. So, I'm glad that you are, you're, you are emphasizing in the, you know, the same amount that others might be emphasizing it because of, because you get it wrong or your, you know, second shooters get it wrong or, It impacts the entire rest of your workflow. Everything, right?
So thousand percent. Yeah.
you know, I, I think, I think there's a lot of, like, people are always thinking about this magic formula. Oh my God, how'd you take this image? Whatever, whatever. I built my, my, my career as an educator on the fact. I'm solid with the basics, man, like I am Tim Duncan, bro. You know, I am solid with the basics and it helps me to be consistent.
Andre Brown: The more you start to try to, you know, oh, I want to do this, that this person does, it's good to do that still. Like, if you wanna learn it here, that's cool, right? But like in the [00:06:00] moment with a pain claim, you know, do that cell on, on your own time and like, and figure it out, right? Mm-hmm. . , I'm solid with the basics and it's, it supported me, the ability to be able to, you know, have a successful business.
Obviously I'm an, I'm an educator now. you know, I gotta look. A lot of good things going on there. I won a lot of awards, but the basics, you know? Mm-hmm. , basic lighting, you know, setups and on, on just, you know, solid composition and, you know, solid exposure.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. Well said. Well said. okay, so let's move into the business side of things.
What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money?
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you've been in a variety of businesses, , as I learned at Imaging . and,so I'm, my question for you now is what is one thing that you do for a business that saves you time or money in your photography business?
Andre Brown: Workflow, man. Workflow. I teach a, I teach a workflow class for purposes, right? [00:07:00] Mm-hmm.
when you go to conferences or just even like if you're doing webinars and stuff, that's not the sexy stuff that people want to hear, right? Mm-hmm. , they don't want to hear, oh, get a solid workflow down, you know, it'll help you to, you know, grow your business since that, and the third, right? Everything, everything has a, a workflow, right?
Like McDonald's is, you know, the most famous burger chain in the world because some guy came in to the McDonald Brothers, right? Yeah. Ray Crock. and created a better workflow. Yeah. Right. You cannot, you can't argue with that, right? Yeah. So for most of us, including myself or one man band, I did hire an assistant like, you know, in 22 or whatever, right?
But one man band, traveling around the country a lot, traveling around the world a lot, right? Mm-hmm. , I need things to run as smoothly as as possible, so creating systems [00:08:00] and creating processes and then and incorporating systems in order for my business to run, even when I'm not physically, you know, sitting at the computer, even when I don't have wifi, I'd be able, you know, to connect, to be able to, monitor every little thing.
Yeah.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. so not only like, you know, keeping things streamlined and, and running when you're not there, but like the fact that, you are traveling literally like to Dubai, right? You still need your processes to run, so you need to rely on cloud solutions. So like an Excel spreadsheet for example, would be like how somebody might start.
But when you're at the point where you are in your business, you need cloud solutions that you can access from anywhere that. That just do what, you know, just keep, go, keep chugging away, right? So,
Andre Brown: yeah, that was a percent like, you know, we, we live in this digital age and everything is like very digital. I remember like swapping over to the, the palm devices on the [00:09:00] phone and all of this stuff back in the day, right?
Yeah. But, when it's all said and done, like I still physically like to, to write things down. I do it in a digital fashion, in that I, I have my, my iPad mm-hmm. , and I use a, a program called Good Notes, right? Mm-hmm. , but it's basically just a notepad that's digital. I can keep, you know, Different things for the different businesses that I have where I can take little notes, you know, my assistant or if I need to share that note with somebody, then I can do that.
the main thing that I'm using for just overall business, organization and workflow right now. Is, it's a company called Snap Flow and it is fully automated. Oh, you were in my talk. You heard me talk about Snap Flow, right? So using Snap Flow in conjunction with, you know, 17 hats, all of my client.
Andre Brown: Still, like my book client stuff goes into 17 hats, but all my regular lead management and everything happens in [00:10:00] in Snap flow. I gave a demonstration there about the text features and everything and I, that's been a lifesaver. I've just did the same thing for the bridal show. Back in the day, you used to, I hadn't done a bridal show since like 2018.
Right. So, you know, you used to have people fill out the little forms and you would have to come home, put that stuff in a, Excel spreadsheet and just kind of go, now I got 'em. Scan the QR codes. You scan the QR code, fill out the form. They're automatically dropped into a, a work. Text reminders, email reminders, drip sequences, and I don't have to touch anything.
Yeah. My assistant kind of monitors right. When people, reach out. And then the only time I'm talking to people now is when they're ready to, to, to sign a contract. Right?
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. That, that is definitely a time saver. and a money saver, you know, just having like one solution to just handle, you know, that, that bulk of it.
What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz: And. really does save you the money because it's one solution and save you the [00:11:00] time because you're not doing it . Right. So good. Right. So good. yeah. Okay. So, moving on to the editing part of things, besides Imagen, cause we're gonna get to Imagen, but what is one thing you do for editing that has saved you time?
Andre Brown: Oh man. Aside from a man's. That's a good question, bro. Like, cuz literally, I, I went through the journey of editing all the weddings myself, right? So I was doing, getting plus weddings a year, you know, doing all the marketing, whatever, whatever. And still editing my, that stuff myself. I went over to a, a editor mm-hmm.
that was kind of a pain in the butt right there Was there let consistency, because I didn't have. The same dedicated editor, you know? Right. So it was like ground robbing who was available? Yeah. And now, oh, on the editing
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: side. Well, let me ask like, are, are [00:12:00] you, are you using any, when you have, when you have to do any final touchups, right?
Any, anything that, let's say it's the, a portrait of the bride and, bride and groom that they're gonna blow, you know, have printed large on their wall, right? Where you're gonna take more time beyond just what Imagen does for you. and and do like those really fine retouch points. Are you doing something like a welcome tablet or a, a loop deck for that editing, or like is there any tool that you're using to, to, to make things easier for you?
Is there any software using, in addition to Lightroom that. makes things better, you know, easier for you or saves you time.
definitely a welcome tablet. Like I choose a welcome tablet, like a, like a mouse now. Yeah, . you know, but that comes from, way before I was a photographer. my buddy is a graphic designer.
Andre Brown: I saw him kind of doing it. I did graphic design. I knew how to read text photos before. Knew how to take photos, right? Mm-hmm. , cuz I was in graphic design, but walk tablets is, you know, it's, it's so much easier than like this whole little finger thingy and out. Yeah. [00:13:00] so that definitely does make it, you know, more convenient in terms of softwares outside of, outside of the just standard Photoshop, nothing at the moment.
You know, I've tried, you know, some of the Yeah. Retouching softwares. Mm-hmm. , I've tried, you know, I've, I've, I've tried it all right. Just to figure out what's gonna make my life easier. Mm-hmm. and, you know, I have a pretty consistent workflow at the moment of. Running everything through, Imagen What's it, cuz I, I'll call, there's a couple different softwares I'll use to like, you know, cold depending on how I feel.
Andre Brown: And then I'll take it into Lightroom, run it through, Imagen, spit it back out, you know, export it and anything that needs to be final churches, if I'm doing the final churches, cuz I don't, I don't always do them right time, things like that, right? I go right. Right at a Photoshop and, you know, break out that walk home.
My retouching, I use frequency separation. [00:14:00] There's not gonna say there's not quite an easy way to, to do that at the moment, right? there's just so many ways I haven't tried, tried them all quite yet. ,
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: especially with Photoshop. With Photoshop, there's, if you wanna do one thing, , there's a hundred ways you can do that.
One thing in Photoshop. Right? So a hundred percent
Andre Brown: and now there's all these companies dropping like retouch panels and Right. And things of that nature. Yeah. You know, sometimes, at least for me, the learning curve of it all is just easier for me to just do what I was doing and then, you know, as opposed to taking the time to learn.
It's this new thing.
What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay, so you've now photographed the wedding, you've handled the business parts, you're doing the editing, you're now it's delivery time. what is one thing you do after a session that has increased business?
so for, [00:15:00] for weddings, I do, I do in-person sales or whatever, right?
Andre Brown: So my wedding clients, they do get a gallery of, of sort, but I have the clients come here, I'll do a I'll do a slideshow presentation. Right of, of all of the ImagenAI's and to kind of, you know, build up that, that hype for, and then right after that, we move right into the sales session. Right? So people, I'm all about client experience, right?
So that's, I I truly believe if you, if you create a good client experience, you'll have, you know, better sales overall. Yeah. You have to get those people in your door, right. Post wedding sales or post session sales. The moment like I made a full shift over to all of that. Like, I was able to increase my, my income exponentially, cuz now I'm not just getting the money on the session side.
I'm getting [00:16:00] this stuff on the post side. And then I, I literally had a client who was, who was outta state. She lived in San Francisco and I shot a friend of hers wedding. And, we were actually, we were talking about the whole client experience and the fact that they were in San Francisco. I was like, oh well, You're out here, so I, I won't be able to do the reveal with you, you know, cuz you'll be out here being to do a little zoom or send you package.
He just, he was like, no, I heard, I heard about, you know, the, the reveal sessions. I'm coming to Atlanta so I can sit down and have my reveal session right. So as people start to talk, you know, people will start to an. You know, the things that would make you stand out from, from everybody else. So for me, in that case, is the reveal session with the slideshow and the champagne and the charcuterie and all of that.
Like, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to, to, to get 'em to a nice little place to spend [00:17:00] some more money post wedding. You know,
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: pam, them with good food and some assumption fine wine.
Andre Brown: Right. I won't say fine. Why a little cheese plate in some, in some, what's the, what's that jam jar or something like that, you know? And, we have a good time here.
We, we just kind of hang out and, yeah, just make it, just make it a, a good experience for them. ,
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: do you, do you put on mood music that like, you know, that they already like based on like your experience getting to know them over the time? Yeah,
Andre Brown: I mean, my clients are pretty consistent across the board in general.
I have like, you know, one of those little Alexa devices in here mm-hmm. that's playing, you know, music throughout, typically, you know, Nineties r and b. That's pretty, it's pretty safe. You know, the music these days is a little, off chain. Mom comes in here and it's like Cardi B in the background. like that could be a little, shocking for her, right?
But, Yeah. You know, I, I [00:18:00] keep that going. It's all about atmosphere, like mm-hmm. , even the scent, I have a specific scent that I use in this video. I don't, I don't change it. Right, right. so again, client experience. Yeah. And I make sure that client experience is the same by having a consistent workflow.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Were you the one who said, did you say it that you also spray that scent on the print, like on the package when you. .
Andre Brown: So, yeah, so it's not venting cuz that would be too expensive. But like I, I send out welcome packages to clients, um mm-hmm and it's really just all depending on where they are, you know, package wise.
If they're just in a regular package, they get an envelope that has contracts, information to other vendors or whatever. I spray it with, it's my favorite scent from blue. spread it down or whatever. So when they, once it's been inside their packaging for a couple of days, it is, you know, it's like poof.
Right. . but then like clients who end up in my black [00:19:00] label collection, then they, they get a nice little gift. You know, it's, it's all about perceived value, right? Yes. So, although it doesn't cost me a ton, when they get it, they're like, holy snap, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, Spray down the, the package fuel spray.
So when they open it up, you hit with that sink. If they shop in those places, they'll recognize their scent. Yeah.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: It's like, it's like, an Apple product, right? Like they put so much time and effort into the box that a new phone or a home pod or whatever is shipped in. It's literally a piece of cardboard with a tape to seal it, but, right.
The experience is beautiful every time. No matter. Even when they take out the charger .
Andre Brown: Right, right. The way that the, the box feels, cuz it's, it's a box. It's cardboard. Yeah. But it's not regular cardboard. Right, right. You know, the entire thing is an experience and I, I think that people miss that a [00:20:00] lot of times.
Right. Yeah. Every single touchpoint is inexperience.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Yeah. And, and when somebody hears that scent, smells that scent somewhere else, they're gonna remember. Whether it's related to photography or not, they're gonna remember you. So I love that. Yeah. What is one thing that you are struggling with right now in your photography business?
Is it something that Imagen could help with, share it with the other Imageners in the Imagen community? So before we get into, a very deep question, I'm doing something that, I started doing a few episodes back and. I'm gonna ask you to pick a color deck.
Andre Brown: Color day. Color day. Let's go with the, the orange, orange deck.
Now let's go. Let's go. Money green. I need some money. Oh, we're going green. Money. Green.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: All right. All . All right. I am gonna start shuffling this deck. You tell, or like, you know, thumbing through it. You tell me when. Stop [00:21:00]
Andre Brown: start. Okay. .
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Okay. My next question to you is
What gives you butterflies in your stomach?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz: You never know which way this can go, so, , what gives you butterflies in your stomach? I. Oh,
Andre Brown: just in general? Mm-hmm. or, photography related, whatever
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you want to, wherever you want to go with it. Hey, you picked this question. So ,
Andre Brown: man. So for me on like photos, right? Again, I, I travel, I travel a lot, right? Yeah.
so being able to go to like new locations and. , you walked up on a location you like. Yeah. This is insane, right? Mm-hmm. and being able to, to see the art of it all, like in that moment before you even, and make it [00:22:00] happen like no snow. Better feeling like that's probably the only thing I really get excited over.
Andre Brown: If you know me, you know, I'm very. Even tempered. I don't really get excited about anything, but like, to be able to see a scene mm-hmm. , and like you, you just kind of, you see the shot, nobody's even in it yet, and you can just kind of envision it. Yeah. Snow, snow better feel, and then once you take the, the people, you pop it in there and you can make it, you know, come to life.
Yeah. That is, that is, an incredible feeling for sure.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: My zen zone is landscape. Like next, if you want me to like really chill out, give me a landscape and let me spend the whole day there. Right? And that's like when I, when I get to a scene like that and I'm just like, oh man, I can go so many different places here and capture such, you know, like , I get that same, that same feeling.
I get that way more there than I do with client photos, except certain locations with clients like Princeton University here in New Jersey. [00:23:00] The architecture is gorgeous, right? So when I go there with a client, I'm like, the possibilities are endless . So nice. Nice. I totally, I totally get that, that, that answer.
Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz: So nice one. Okay, let's go deep here. I want you to look at your business from a 30,000 foot view down. Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery?
Andre Brown: All right. Yeah. So, from leads delivery, so once they come in through the website right, they automatically just go directly into Snap Flow, right?
So Snap flow.co for those who are, you know, searching online right now, trying to figure it out where it is, . So go to Snap flow.co. they go into Snap Flow, and from there they immediately get, well, once they sign up for the, , they start to get into our work portal for just inquiry communication.
Mm-hmm. , that's in, initial text [00:24:00] message that comes from my assistant. Right. It's all automated. Right, right. So there's a text message that comes from my assistant. That's, you know, basically promming them for, you know, signing,scheduling a discovery call with her, right? But then they also go into, you know, email, Hey, we got your inquiry.
someone will be in contact with you soon. Like that's the first thing that goes out. About three minutes or so later, they end up getting the Clark Smiths right. from, , they either schedule the consultation or if not, the system automatically prompts them with more text messages. from my assistant can say, Hey, you know, we missed you yesterday.
Andre Brown: You know, we want to get you scheduled in for a call. Meanwhile, if they're not responding in the text, they're also getting emails that are from me that say, , you know, click this link to schedule the consultation, boom, boom, boom. Right? So once we get them in consultation wise, or even before that, [00:25:00] they schedule the consultation, let's say it's a week from now, they're automatically dropped into a drip campaign, right?
So I have a five day drip. that ends up going out with information related to whatever the subject matter is that they signed up for. So if it's, if it's wedding, it's wedding related, maternity, maternity related, boudoir, so on and so forth, right? Mm-hmm. , because I, my goal is to be the trusted advisor on whatever it is that they're coming to me for.
Right? Right. one. I'm not gonna say most of the time I'm winning the business cuz a lot of it all to do with price point. Right. And you know, but I'm, I'm winning business because I'm doing the things that other people are not doing. Most people are going in and they're having conversations with clients and saying, oh yeah, you want me to, you want me to build a rocking ship?
Me, I can do that. It's not gonna cost you any extra money. You know? Oh, you want all of your photos retouched from their, their, their. [00:26:00] That's four days long. Yes. All 10,000 of those photos, I will retouch every single one of those and then can't deliver on the backside, right? So I'm managing client expectations.
I am becoming the trusted advisor all along the way. So once the consultation ends up happening, you know, then they go into the booking, you know, phase in our process that has its own, you know, workflow. Contracts. once they go through the contract, then they go through onboarding. The onboarding process is a gom me continuing to be the trusted advisor and, and,managing client expectations.
This is what's gonna happen. This is what's not gonna happen. You know, , if you need, if you need vendor recommendations, I'm sending them vendor recommendations. Mm-hmm. , I send them. . I send them special offers to other businesses that I. . Right. So I don't know if you were in there, in [00:27:00] that part of my talk, but I literally started an Amazon store of products related to, you know, the, the wedding industry that I thought my, that I knew my clients were already buying it.
This weren't buying me. Right. Right. So I knew I had X amount of clients per year that would likely. and then anybody else that, you know, we're purchasing on Amazon, then, you know, that was a thing too, right? Yeah. I have a, I have a, 360 booth company. It's not my company, right? But I, I offer those services.
The company is actually owned by one of my clients. I just. You know, a fee or a top of that, right? So no matter what I'm, I'm making money. These are all things that they would, that they would need or consider throughout the process. Right? Why should I not make money on that as well, right? Yeah. If they didn't hire me for videography, they're getting information about videography.
If they didn't,if [00:28:00] most of my clients are doing bachelorette trips, I offered my services to go on their, their back thread trips or whatever, giving them information about costs that gives me more content. That gives me better relationship with the client. I would rather go in and get one client spending 20 down $30,000 with me than to go get 10.
$3,000 clients. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. , those are all individual people that you have to keep happy when I only have to keep this one person happy to make the same amount of money. Right. Yeah. So again, workflow and client experience. session day, no matter what the session is, whether it's wedding or session, that.
that's just is what it is. Right. and then, you know, post wedding or, or maternity session information about the reveal, I deliver my, my galleries within two weeks, I Imagen has definitely made that process a little bit easier, right? [00:29:00] Because you can get it done so much faster. , however, I still don't give it to them that fast.
Right? primarily because one of the major pull throughs into my top packets is faster delivery, right? So you want faster delivery, pay me more money. Right? You don't, you don't want faster delivery, right? You wanna wait for two weeks, then you'll, you'll wait through two weeks, right? but I want to get them.
In the studio for that reveal as soon as possible. They're gone for the honeymoon. For a week, week and a half, day two being back. I want you here. You're nice, you're relaxed. You've been on the beats doing whatever, right? You've been drinking, you are a little sober now. You come in here, you get some drinks and we talk about you spending some more money.
Make
sure
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: you're not, you're not sober.
Andre Brown: Right. That's funny. You know, bring them, bring them, bring them in here and take them back to that, [00:30:00] that place that they were in when they were on vacation. Oh, this is nice. I'm relaxed. Nice sense. Nice food, you know, nice little drink. So then we go through the IPS process.
if they buy, excuse me, I'll say maybe about 65, 70% of my clients end up, you know, buying. And when I say buying, they're either adding additional products or they're upgrading the, the products that they already had. Right, right, right. and then, from there it's getting those orders out, having everything come back into the studio.
Custom packaging. And then, I have we all, particularly day of the week, that people can come by and, pick your products.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. when you mentioned the photo booth and you, you know, you're basically, you're outsourcing to actually one of your client's business. Right. And you're putting, you [00:31:00] know, your own value on it, and then you're basically making some profit off of that, which is fantastic.
Right. . Right . and then, and then you mention the videographer. Are you doing the same thing with a videographer and throwing your, you know, extra profit on top of it for yourself? Or are you just outsourcing that, like referring to a videographer?
Andre Brown: No. Yes and no. So like I do have friends or whatever that are, are videographers, but then I, I have a, I have a team, right?
So there's a few of us, we all have our own companies, right? Mm-hmm. , and we all, we work with one another. So even my, my primary second shooter has its own business that's just as busy or successful. It's not Right, right, right. but our clientele is, is. So we're never really competing for jobs at all.
Mm-hmm. , right? So we can work together and there's no issue. and same with videographers. I have a, i, I, I physically do video, like I do, do video. You have a lot of photographers that are like, oh yeah, I do video, but they really outsource. I do [00:32:00] do video, but on the day of, if I'm doing photo or video, I have somebody else come in and be the primary.
Videographer so I can focus on nothing but photo. They focus on nothing but videography. But this is part of my team When I book corporate jobs, when I book bigger jobs, when I, I need people, I utilize my network of, of friends, to be able to pull all of that stuff together.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah, there's a, there's.
Here in New Jersey, there's a face, two Facebook groups that are like specifically for,the photographers to network and like help each other when needed. Like people who again, like have their own businesses, but when, you know, so-and-so has a, a wedding and need a second shooter, cuz they're second normal, normal second shooter, couldn't for some reason, they'll go into the Facebook group, well, they'll go to shoot with me and they'll find another, you know, local photographer with the.
That is normally the primary shooter for their own business to second shoot for them. So they know they have like [00:33:00] someone experienced to, to come in and like, help when like their normal second shooter's not available. yeah. Yeah.
Andre Brown: So I, I love the concept there. Shoot with me at, he and I, we chatted, chatting sometime last year or whatever.
And I love that. I love the concept, especially again, with me traveling to different places. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't, I don't do the, I don't do the a I need a second shooter for Saturday. I don't do that. Um mm-hmm. , I need people that I work with on the regular basis. You know, who, if they're not up to par Right.
I say very loosely if they're not up to. We train them, we train them so that when on the day of, I don't need to be worried about the Imageners that, that you have. Right, right. Have I been in situations over the years where I've had to like get a body that's, that's what I say. You know, like, oh, I seen a body an X, y, Z day.
Yeah. If I do that, My intent is to shoot everything. Yeah. If [00:34:00] I need a body, I don't, I don't trust you. You know, we have to work together on a regular basis and I know what it is that you know you can produce. Absolutely not. You're a body to fill a contract and I will shoot everything. because people don't have the same level of care that you.
Right. You know, with dealing with your, your clients, people don't have the same standards that you have, right? Mm-hmm. . so yeah. That's, that's a tough one, man. That's, that's been, it is
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: a pain point. , yeah. The, the, the community here of wedding photographers that, they're pretty tight as far as like, they help each other out a lot.
It's really interesting. and. They, they, they're, they're definitely still particular about who they work with, but, they, they tend to, the same group tends to help each other on a regular basis, which probably means that they're, they know each other enough to, to trust. That they're gonna produce what they need to produce.
so it is interesting, but, okay. [00:35:00] So yeah, thank you for walking through that. I, I, I love how detailed every aspect of it, it, it is of your business, is to make sure that not only, your job is easier because you've got a lot in your plate, but also. that your clients know what is happening at every step of the process for them, right.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: They know, like you said, you're not building a rocket ship. You, they, you're not, they know you're not building it ahead of time. They know you're not building the day of . Right,
Andre Brown: right. Yeah. I mean, I So good. And that's the thing, like just think about every aspect of of our lives, right? We're getting all these pings and all of this stuff like that.
Yeah. And you place an order on whatever they're letting you know. We got your order. Yep. It shipped it's outfit delivery. It's on your doorstep. Right. People are already used to those types of things. Right? Yeah. So it, it's nothing for us to be able to implement those same things, that's our business. Yeah.
We just have to find the systems and [00:36:00] softwares in order to be able to, to make that happen. And, you know, that's, that's what I do with Snap flow, so mm-hmm. , I, I basically can, I can drag the person from one part of the process into the. and as soon as I drag them from one part to the next, just that simple drag can kick off a workflow and start sending them communications.
So, When I start to do the album design, I'll move them over one from me to know where they are in the, the pipeline, right? Yeah. So I'll move them over, but it'll send them a message. Hey, you know, this is just to let you know your album design has begun. You know, you can expect a draft in, you know, X, y, Z amount of time, right?
Like people, people love this stuff, right? Yeah. Cause they never, yeah, they never have to, to guess if they don't know what's going on. They draw their own conclusions, they've become frustrated, so on and [00:37:00] so forth.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. You, it's your own version of like what Apple Wallet does now with, with transactions that you buy through with, with an Apple Pay where like Apple Wallet will actually tell you the status of that shipment.
Or Spotify. not Spotify, Shopify. Product and like when you buy a product through a Shopify store now, and like right. You can get the, the updates in real time as well. Like that's you, what you're doing is your version of that, which is really good for making sure that your clients are always in the know about everything.
Andre Brown: Thousand percent. Yeah. And, and that you're, you're happy I'm able to send notifications to my team and my, and. . Yeah. Oh, if this doesn't happen within X amount of times, sending internal notification or sending a text message or whatever, to me, they're like, Hey dude, you're supposed to do X, Y, z because we, we forget the, the further we get into Penn digital aids.
Right. The more we forget, like, think about it, back in the day, like you knew everybody's phone number broke the top of your head. [00:38:00] Yeah. I know my parents, I know my parents. home number. My, both of my parents, cell numbers and that's it. Yeah.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: I know my wife and my own ,
Andre Brown: he said, he said my own Right. I would, I would hope.
Right. So, yeah, I mean, outside that, like, I don't, I don't know any other numbers. Right. I even, I, I've lived in this city for 10. , although I know how to get around. Mm-hmm. at GPS almost everywhere. Yeah. Because I want whatever the fastest route is at that particular time. Yeah,
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: yeah, definitely. You know, definitely.
What does the future of AI in photography look like to you?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yep. Yeah. Technology. Speaking of technology, what does the future of AI in photography look like to you?
, hopefully not these, cartoon characters or whatever that's, that's going on, you know? it's so funny, like you see people, what's it called? Journey? Mid Journey. Right? Mid Journey's, one of them.
Andre Brown: The other Mid journey. Yeah. Like, oh my God, look at this beautiful picture I made. Oh, you did [00:39:00] like ai, like you put in some prompts and you pick the one that you like, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's gonna be like a, a real gray area in terms. , you know, creativity, copyright, you know, things of that nature.
Yep. but hopefully at, at the end of the day, as much as I talked about, like human error when it came to, you know, having an, an editor, right? Mm-hmm. . I guess technically AI could be more,creative than, than what we are in terms of, I cuz it's beyond,beyond imagination at this point. Right.
but I don't know man. I mean obviously droids, I won't say obviously droids won't be at weddings, shooting weddings or whatever, but, cuz who knows, right? I don't know, man. I mean, it's, it's a bit scary. It is a bit scary. Not as, oh, I'm gonna lose my job. But I think it comes down to like [00:40:00] expectation and stuff as well, you know?
we're already seeing like the, the plastic skin retouchers anyway. Like, just Imagen what that's gonna. In depth looking like later on .
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. So, so, yeah, I, I think from, from what I'm gathering, like you, you're, you're just, it's more like, you know, the AI that you're utilizing. Like Imagen for example, just getting better and getting, getting smarter, not necessarily, the the mid journey type things, which are completely different, type of right type of deal.
But, but just. More things that are useful in various ways without being over the top, basically. Yeah.
Andre Brown: I mean, it'll, it'll definitely fine tune himself. Like, I like my San Francisco client. He actually works, shit, I don't even know if I can say that, nevermind. But, he's doing something with ai mm-hmm.
and, it's, it's insane. And showed me it's insane. Of, of what's coming up in [00:41:00] the world of, image manipulation. Yeah. And, and things of that nature.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Well, let me, let me ask you this. someone who has a background in music, have you heard or seen the AI that actually masters, like takes a recording, right?
A full song that's been recorded and masters it via. Have you, have you heard? No,
Andre Brown: I have months.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. It's pretty freaking cool. . Really? Yeah. So like, it's now music. not that again, not that you wanna replace a human, but now well you're, you like a band who's just starting out who can't afford, you know, a producer to master or something like that.
Yeah. Just throw it in and now you've got a master. . That sounds way better than what it did straight out of the recording. So,
Andre Brown: man, like that's insane. Like first auto tune nowadays now all terrible. Get off. Musicians are really just gonna offer a [00:42:00] shot. Right? . man, like that's, that's crazy, man. I mean, yeah, it's more convenient for us.
it's definitely quicker for us, even in the world of music. Like I mentioned, Dave Pendo, like a big Dave charges like 20,000, 30,000 to like mix a record or something, whatever it was back in the day, right? Effectively. For those who either can't afford that or don't appreciate that, I feel like there'll be a lane for that, right?
Andre Brown: Yes, yes. but then it also gives somebody like Ham, the opportunity to like how you guys have the, the profiles or whatever. Like, oh, Protus has a day, Pena, you know, profile or whatever, that you could down and get it mastered. You know, like Dave Zao would do it. . I mean, that's kind of, that's kind of legit.
I mean, yeah. You know.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Yeah. It could, it, it could. These, those in the music have also, I've, I've only popped up in the last year, so they're very new. But I've been paying attention cuz [00:43:00] I know that in my band days, when I was younger, we did our own ma mastering, so . Right. You know, so I would've, I would've loved a tool like that, so.
How did Imagen impact your life?
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Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Right. I, I've been paying attention. okay. That's dope. So, we've gone through everything I want to ask you now. How did Imagen impact your life?
Andre Brown: Oh, man. I've, I've been talking about it so much since we, since we started, but. Speed. Speed and efficiency. I mean, I've, I've, I literally, I mean, we, I mean, granted, this is a workflow podcast, right?
But I literally talk to you about my, my workflow, how important it is to me, right? And how all of the little nuances are important. Speed inefficiency are key, right? Mm-hmm. . So even I did a talk at, at imaging on the wedding express talks, and it was talking about ImagenAI [00:44:00] and how it's, how it's enabled me to speed up my, my time, right?
So for the most part, my edits aren't taking any more than like 10 minutes versus human editor, three to four days. Okay? That's. If in three to four days it comes back exactly the way that you want it, right? Which it did not the majority of the time. So nine out three to four days, you gotta send it back in.
They have to receive it, put it back into their workflow. That can easily stretch out to seven to 10 days, right? but now you have to spend more time going back, back, back in order to get the final product where. With ImagenAI, thus bar, I put everything in, you know, it spits out a result. If I need to make tweaks to that result, I make the tweaks and then from there I upload it back into the system so it can learn what they did wrong, right?
Mm-hmm. . And, [00:45:00] you know, hopefully the next time around it, it makes those adjustments. so yeah, that's, That's been wonderful. It's been a wonderful time saver. I'm literally, a lot of times inside of the, the Delta lounge in the airport. I'm just like, boo boo, you know, just letting it do its thing. Yep. Go walk around, you know, give me something to eat, come back.
It's done. You know, if it's all squared away, I just take it and immediately upload it into a cloud spot. and, you know, have it ready. So when my clients come in, they have the, the Imageners and stuff available to them.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Nice. Yeah, it's so, it's so nice to hear when, like, the impact is so big, like the fact that you could be in the airport, have your edits going, and you can just go grab a.
and not have to worry about it. It's still good. Right.
Andre Brown: And I, all that stressful, I think we talked about this. Right. You know, and I think we talked about this in the beginning. I was very skeptical, man. I am. Mm-hmm. , I am anti-everything cliche . And then when I got hit with [00:46:00] another AI thing, I was like, bro, I think I ignored your emails for like six months, bro.
And, You know, I was like, you know, I'm just gonna sit down and, and, and give it a go. And I'm glad I did, man. I can't, I can't friend. I'm, I'm glad that I, that I did sit down and, and play with it. Yeah. And it was really easy to use. there was like no crazy learning curve or something like that. You just jump right in.
You don't have to read any directions. Cause who does that, right? Mm-hmm. , nobody reads anything and just start pressing buttons and, and let it. . Yeah.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Awesome. okay, so where can listeners learn more about you, connect with you and of course, see your incredible photography?
Andre Brown: Oh man. Instagram is always gonna be the most updated, even though I don't post very often.
So, all my social media outlets and YouTube included are at Andre Brown photo. you can, my website is Andre Brown dot. I have, all my education, content courses, things of that nature, nature at [00:47:00] Boca Academy dot. so if you want to, you know, learn anything from me, especially about the, the workflows and then, of course, as I mentioned earlier, snap flow snap flow.com, go check that out.
great price, you know, all in one tool for you to be able to, streamline your workflows and, help, help you run your business for efficient.
Scott Wyden Kivowitz: Thank you Andre, for such an awesome conversation. A deep dive into your workflow. For sharing all those fantastic takeaways. You have been listening to Workflows Presented by Imagen.
To hear more from workflows and to find a link to our guest, please go to imagen-ai.com/podcast. Be a part of the conversation by joining the Imagen community at imagen-ai.com/community. And be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thank you for tuning in. Until next time.[00:48:00]
